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Well, as baggeroli mentioned, we already tried that once and I don't think it worked very well at all. There were NO sites being reviewed. No activity means people assume the site is dead and won't bother to submit their sites.
The number one issues, that baggeroli and I have already mentioned a few times is that submitters need to be TOLD that they have to review other sites. This has to be fixed before any "system" has any hope of working.
I can see imposing a requirement of reviewing a couple of sites before you are allowed to submit your own, but the only way to find out how people will react is to put it in action. Obviously 10 reviews was too much -- it scared everyone away. Maybe fewer will work...
If you want an active community you can't impose too large of an entry barrier. People won't come, as I think October showed. However, burying the forum in spam (as it's buried now) is just as bad.
If there is no requirement to review sites it seems unlikely that anyone will do it. If the number required is too low, I think you'll just get superficial reviews just to quickly meet the requirement. It does need to be made crystal clear to everyone thinking of submitting that they are expected and required to participate.
If there is no requirement to review sites it seems unlikely that anyone will do it.
There absolutely has to be a requirement to review sites, however the question is whether submitters must meet some/all of that requirement before submitting their own sites.
I think the review forum was working "reasonably" well -- at least better than it is now -- back in October before the form submission and poll voting were put in place and the forum got spammed with a million "historical" submissions. When I first started as a moderator the review process was not working well. The problem was the same as it is now: most people were submitting and never returning because they did not understand that they were obliged to perform some reviews.
We clarified the submission rules and I kept reminding people that they had to review other sites in order to get their sites approved. Slowly a collection of regular reviewers was formed. (I only see a few left.) There was still spam, yes, but it was generally ignored and dealt with. Once "good submitters" understood the rules, I think things flowed reasonably well. I'm not saying there wasn't room for improvement, but it seems to me that the submission/review forum has taken a gigantic step backwards...
I have also mentioned many times before that I believe people are more likely to review other sites if they see their site(s) being reviewed in tandem. Most people are going to come here wanting to submit immediately. If they find out they have to do a bunch of time-consuming reviews before they can post, they'll just move on to the next directory because they won't have the time/desire to review X sites on the spot. We clearly saw a demonstration of this during the last week of October/early November. However, if they can post their site and then work on the reviews, they might be more encouraged to stick around.
OK, in danger of repeating myself (and WF's opinion): I don't think it should be mandatory before submission.
The key thing is we have to invite people to review sites. Not demand it. Explain the benefits of reviewing sites: your site gets reviewed sooner and quicker, you get feed-back, it's exciting to see positive reviews for your site increasing (thinking out loud ) etc. etc.
I know not every submitter is willing to put some time in but 1 out of 20 would be a great improvement.
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people are more likely to review other sites if they see their site(s) being reviewed in tandem
So true!!
ps: is this the longest thread in HEDIR history? (It's Alive!!)
Wintefrost's and baggeroli's comments are excellent. If the system of implementing a reviewing process where the top five or ten nearest to recommendation are at the top, It'll keep things moving.
The new site is not going to be near the top for a while, and if they aren't about to review sites, it drops their site down the importance list.
I think we're on to something here. _________________ Matt
[url=mailto:msealey@quasar-host.net]msealey@quasar-host.net[/url]
http://www.quasar-host.net/
Hi guys,
the current review policy is not so much good, i consider. also I am not very confident about the system that is proposed by site admin.
the proposed system will mostly depend on the vote given by the community members and those vote will have more value which are given by the senior members. That means members not only have to review but also have to give vote where there will be only 2 options yes or no. Members may or may not like a site so strongly but for him/her there will no option insead of of choosing yes or no.
What i prefer that instead of giving more priority to the vote priority can be given to the reviews.
Say one site has been posted for community review by a member. Now member's point will be considered as the point of the site. Now another member reviews the site, then part of his hedir points will be added to the site's point. (the point won't get deducted from the member). this way good review will give benifit to the site. Also it will help the site to go upwords in the priority list.
Again this process will encourage the submitter to review other sites, cause this way he/she will earn more hedir points and it will give more benifit to the submitted site.
Let community members think about it.
Say one site has been posted for community review by a member. Now member's point will be considered as the point of the site. Now another member reviews the site, then part of his hedir points will be added to the site's point. (the point won't get deducted from the member). this way good review will give benifit to the site. Also it will help the site to go upwords in the priority list.
We thought of that too. But the concern is, if someone gives negative review for the site, then also reviewers points are added, and the site benefits from the negative review!
BTW, welcome to the hedir community, d_arindam _________________ Evolution is always better than revolution. My attempt at Blogging!
Ahum, I took the liberty to sent a simple e-mail to a submitter (who joined and submitted 8 sites today) explaining the community review system and benefits for submitter when reviewing other sites.
Guess what? He just reviewed 2 sites. Offcourse I don't know if he will stay or just goes for the 10 reviews but the point is, you have to inform/invite people.
If it's the one I think it is, he's on 14 posts now. He's reviewing like mad! _________________ Matt
[url=mailto:msealey@quasar-host.net]msealey@quasar-host.net[/url]
http://www.quasar-host.net/
I had been waiting on the sideline obeserving this thread. Some of the points raised are good with regards to using the reviewer's hedir point in weightage of the reviews.
My say on the points
Use the points as a measure of how visible should the submitter site be in the review queue.
For example, if baggeroli submit a site and I did likewise, his site will be infront of the review queue as compared to mine submitted site (irregardless of how recent the site was reviewed, you can say his submission review thread is sticky). From what I can observe from the review thread, if the site is not in the first 2 pages, it hardly get reviewed. I feel that this naturely will help veterans of Hedir.
I am not very positive in using reviewer's point as weightage in review simply because it lacks transparency. The points are ever changing (with each post) and the house rules might get overly complicated. IE, keep a review as one count. But this is still open for discussion.
The key issue here I believe is to ask submitters do reviews. I will like to warn everybody the risk of requiring people to do reviews. I am not afriad of no one submitting sites due to such rules. If hedir can grow and it has the potential to grow, submitters will do reviews. Just like submitters offering backlinks to directories they submit to. It is like you scratch my back, I scratch yours.
The problem of compulsory reviews will be REVIEW SPAM IMHO. Imagine one submitter, who needs to fulfill 10 reviews for his site to be submitted, simply cut and paste "RECOMMEND" in all possible review threads he stumble upon. And vote likewise for it. Irregardless of the quality of the site.
When such an incident happen, who will reverse the damage or do damage control? The mods? or the admin? Are we asking too much from the modes to do such damage control to keep the integrity of the reviews? And the admin time could be better used to implement/improve hedir codes.
I maybe paranoid here. Lets not get overzealous in getting reviews to come in. I believe in quality over quanitity. It take time for hedir to grow in its number of links. But it take even more time for the community to gather like minded people who can contribute.
On a ending note, if review spam does come true, it will really really turn me off. _________________ Cheers!
.::redhex::.
Singapore Wine Company Free Classifieds
When such an incident happen, who will reverse the damage or do damage control? The mods? or the admin?
There'll always be reviewers like that. It's just a matter of numbers: 4 junk reviewers and 6 good reviewers would mean improvement IMO.
It's the price you have to pay. I have no problem with doing some damage control. I'd rather do that than what I'm doing now: checking every new submission for spam/affiliate etc. and editing those darn long descriptions. That won't be necessary when an ordering system is implemented. These kind of submissions will never come off the last pages.
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The problem of compulsory reviews will be REVIEW SPAM IMHO. Imagine one submitter, who needs to fulfill 10 reviews for his site to be submitted, simply cut and paste "RECOMMEND" in all possible review threads he stumble upon.
That didn't happen when the compulsory review system was introduced a few months ago. What happened was a complete downfall of submitted sites. There was nothing left to review.
RE: Review SPAM, if I remember correctly, I think I only saw two users who did those sorts of reviews. One user I asked if he could please provide more detailed reviews, and I believe he did. The other user I busted for submitting multiple sites under multiple IDs then reviewing each site from each ID, so I just rejected all of the sites. He never came back.
My point is review point (i.e point from the reviewer) will put the in the review list and help it to go up. as it goes up it will have more possibility to have more review. After it gets certain factors (points ??) it should be reviewed by the moderator. Now depending upon the no of good or bad review modarator can approve or reject that site. This way a approval process will take a lesser time to be completed.
I am not sure that is the there any rule or guide for the approval or rejection of a site?
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Ahum, I took the liberty to sent a simple e-mail to a submitter (who joined and submitted 8 sites today) explaining the community review system and benefits for submitter when reviewing other sites.
This may also resolved in this process. possible all his 8 sites wont get that sort of review.
I have put a para in the submission form, explaining in brief, how reviewing other sites can help a submitter. But so far i have not seen any improvement in the review numbers. Maybe i need to elaborate more on the submission form itself. Or better still, i can use the type of email baggeroli has sent to the user explaining the system.
baggeroli, could you send me a copy of the email you have used please?
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btw: does HEDIR provide mail-boxes?
mailboxes can be arranged for all the moderators and contributing members if needed. _________________ Evolution is always better than revolution. My attempt at Blogging!
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