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I never put it in there to begin with to my knowledge, Jack.
As much as I like the site, I can't vote for it and I don't think we ever made a satisfactory decision as to what to do with it, since it and sinksgallery.com are two sites of the same genre by the same member. Not that either site is bad, but it wouldn't be fair and opens up the door for some serious abuse of the site if we allow multiple sites of the same genre by the same member.
lahkya, what say you on this? _________________ HEDir's Prince of Cool
My views on mirror sites is - allow one (the original one) and disallow rest.
My views on sites of the same genre submitted by same person is - we should accept both, if there is substantial content difference.
I would like to point out - these are my views only, not community rules. _________________ Evolution is always better than revolution. My attempt at Blogging!
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: still don't get it...
OK - I'm still confused. Here is where I go - and I suspect everyone else goes to review websites: hedir.com/site-queue.php - or hedir.com/review-centre.php or the most common: hedir.com/free-submission/index.html
I have looked on all these - the only ones that have obvious links - and CopperSinksOnline.com is not on them. ...in other words, it was moved... There are plenty of sites that are much older than my site that are still in the general review section. The general reveiw areas are the only chance my site has of getting reviewed. Since it was moved there have been zero page views... I hope this makes sense and you move it back so it has a chance of being reviewed...
Ok I guess I'll add my input on this.
I'd like to start off by saying that I really do not want grey areas in rules if at all possible. If we can find some way to perfect a rule so it's an absolute then we have a great game plan.
Mirror Sites
I'm not crazy about allowing mirror sites for either version.
There is a fix for this though so it can be allowed to happen with just one staying in the listings.
As was requested in another post I made. We need to have a way to search by domain.
If domain1.com is submitted and a mirror is also found to be at domain2.com then we can search for the domain in the database to make sure it has no listing in hedir already.
This is the only absolute fix for knowing.
The search we need will use a wildcard search within the list of submitted domains.
EX: *domain* or *domain.com
Sites with the same genre
This is a real toss up here. It's easy to go either way.
On the one hand we don't want the categories overflowing with domination by one submitter.
On the other hand they could very good resources whether by one person or many different submitters.
My own opinion is that we shouldn't allow more than one person to dominate a category. Tracking by IP or Username will be a tedious task to keep up with.
We almost have to allow them to be submitted and reviewed. There are still a few rules that will keep many of these types of sites out. No subdomains and No mirror sites.
I'm still open either way on this one though
These have been an issue for awhile. Hopefully we can put this to rest with something that will work.
OK - I'm still confused. Here is where I go - and I suspect everyone else goes to review websites: hedir.com/site-queue.php - or hedir.com/review-centre.php or the most common: hedir.com/free-submission/index.html
I have looked on all these - the only ones that have obvious links - and CopperSinksOnline.com is not on them. ...in other words, it was moved... There are plenty of sites that are much older than my site that are still in the general review section. The general reveiw areas are the only chance my site has of getting reviewed. Since it was moved there have been zero page views... I hope this makes sense and you move it back so it has a chance of being reviewed...
OK - this is too wierd... My apologies to everyone on this board. I was given a link to here: http://www.hedir.com/groupthink/viewtopic.php?p=27735#27735 by lakhya. I go there and it's an entirely different thread with a message to me from lakhya. I reply (the above post) but my post ends up on this thread... This is getting frustrating and bizarre.
JackH, this is the same thread - continued to 2nd page, so obviously any answer to this thread will end up here!
To answer your previous query - we will not have a common area for review, the common submissions forum will be eliminated slowly, all submissions will go to respective forums and people will go to that forum or use the review center to review sites in that category. _________________ Evolution is always better than revolution. My attempt at Blogging!
....errr - whoops... (as he says very red in the face)....
...and it's moot since CopperSinksOnline.com just got it's 10th vote, so hopefully it will finally get approved and out of the review queue...
Either way, it's your directory - but right now it is very obscure how to get to review centers in specific forums.... If you could make this a bit more obvious, you will eliminate sumitted sites from languishing forever in the vast unknown
...sorry for cluttering up this thread and hopefully this exchange will help you improve your directory.
Let's get back to trying and getting more input here.
The only reason that I'm against the CSO site has nothing to do with the site itself, or even with Jack, but the fact that there's one of Jack's in there already.
Like I said before (and GJ reiterated), it would be far too easy to have one person dominate a whole category (especially now that we've split them up and the moderation is going to be that much more specialized.) _________________ HEDir's Prince of Cool
Are you saying that CSO will not be approved? ...it has 10 votes... Next submission would be ArtLightingGallery.com. ...and then GlassArtistsGallery.com - completely different sites, different stuff, etc. What does it matter that these are all run by Functional Art Gallery, LLC???
Mirrors
IMO, we shouldn't allow mirror sites as long as we can't search the directory on domain name, as GJ requested a long time ago. It's asking for trouble. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't allow any mirror site at all. But then someone's going to say that some sites have mirrors for geo-location reasons. That's a good point although I haven't seen many in HEDIR yet. I gues only the big guys do that.
Genre Sites
This is a tough call. I haven't voted for either of Jackh's sites for this reason only, although they're both good sites. I consider coppersinksonline.com and sinksgallery.com not as different sites. From a directory's point of view, we can't afford to have a cat dominated by one or two site-owners. _________________ Please review some sites.
Contributing members of the month
....i don't know how else to say this.... I could repeat previous posts, but will refrain. Have any of you guys ever been in the market for sinks? Have you ever done a DIY project in the bath or kitchen? If you have, you will probably see that SinksGallery.com and CopperSinksOnline.com are completely different in what they offer. CSO is obvious - online etailing of specifically copper sinks targeted at the consumer. Sinks Gallery is an online catalog targeted at the trade. Yes you might find some copper sinks on Sinks Gallery - but that represents about 5% of what is offered. 95% of what is offered at SG is glass sinks, cast bronze sinks, marble, onyx, granite, ceramic, wood (yep, wood), etc. etc. etc. AGain, completely different type of site, different target audience, different products...
That's all I will say. I think most on this board are technical in their skills, whereas I am a marketing guy... The question you are mulling has more marketing issues than technical issues... Hopefully I have clarified this. If CSO was just another site selling the same stuff as on SG, then yes, you might have a point, but it's not. Same with Art Lighting Gallery - lighting. Glass Artists Gallery - specifically functional glass art. Perhaps a bit of cross over, but not much. ...otherwise why would I spend the money on website development, maintenance, etc.?
I hardly dominate the H&G section. I have one website - well hopefully two if somebody would move CSO over there from review (now has 10 yes votes). There should - and probably will - be hundreds of sites represented at some point. There will also be subcats down the road if this directory grows (or should).
The problem isn't your site specifically, though, Jack.
The problem comes down the road when User X stumbles upon the site and happens to come across your two submissions and says "hmmm...I guess we can submit two or more sites of the same category to the directory" and it opens up a major can of worms/abuse potential.
This becomes an even bigger issue with category-based moderation (which is one of the reasons I'm not overly crazy about the idea, and I don't think bags is either.) It's one of the things that has killed any possibility that Dumbass...er...DMOZ will ever grow: too many mods with vested interests dominating categories.
Now obviously you're not in that boat...you don't even have mod privilege. But the thing with bad behaviour is that it has a tendency to escalate, and by allowing this, we may be opening the door to something much more insidious.
Maybe it would make sense if I took another site (in this case, a site network) and used it as an example.
These guys have a network of 98 "sites" (at last count, and I use the term "sites" VERY loosely) and growing. And each one of the sites focuses on a different segment of the H&G market.
To make matters even more screwed up, some of these sites are geared to the consumer, some to the tradesperson, some to the retailer, and some to all of the above (most of them, actually).
Let's say these guys (or someone else with a similar closed network of size) decided to submit their entire network to the directory. That means, at the very least, a mod has to reject 98 sites, each with an explanation.
As Bags and GJ can attest to, that is a pain in the ass to the 100th degree.
I understand that your sites have two different target markets. I also understand that your other sites would have different target markets in turn. But the problem isn't your situation, but where it could lead.
It's one of the reasons I haven't ever submitted ADAM Web Design (that, and I'm actually trying to drive traffic away from that site, but that's another story). It's two sites in a similar genre (web design, the other being Search Engine Friendly Layouts.) Yes, they have two VERY different target audiences, but they're still in the same category.
The idiots who would take advantage of a situation like this, if we allowed it, are a lot closer than you or I probably know.
Maybe I'm being paranoid, but my thinking isn't technical...I'm trying to think like a con man. _________________ HEDir's Prince of Cool
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