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I appreciate the views Adam but our hard work of review should be made available to the general users. That will not come if only 3 or 4 mortgage sites are reviewed under mortgage category. We need to review more sites and it is possible only if we can make the normal user (the customer, the searcher and the visitor) contribute in a simpler way.
Take this screenshot
Our community review system can help people choose the best out of Google or Yahoo SERP. We know that few sites are just on top as they tricked SEs. Now we humans can track the bad apples and make the SERPs better. Human empowered search results through Hedir integrated platform. This is not possible if we have only reviewed 2 sites and we surely will have to involve the normal searcher.
Will a searcher add a site? If the site is not added to hedir how can he/she add a review? These are the questions worrying me.
Then again this is just a brainstorming session and the decision will be made only after we agree upon the better option.
Thanks,
Bret _________________ Web 2.0 bookmarking - I think you cant make it simpler.
Will a searcher add a site? If the site is not added to hedir how can he/she add a review? These are the questions worrying me.
I will take an alternative view on this. You scratch my back I scratch yours. If the submitter review sites. Then we review theirs. That is as simple as that. hedir is offering a free listing and the conditions are clearly stated. If the submitter do not want to spare the effort to do the minimum reviews, I do not think his site deserve to be listed. We do not own him anything.
I may sound high handed, but hedir is based on volunteer reviewers and the last thing that you want is another 24th Nov incident.
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choose the best out of Google or Yahoo SERP
I am not too sure about this. Why do we want to take data from Google/yahoo Serp? Those links are no way permenant. Taking listings from SERP, will google/yahoo unleash a team of reviewers to help out the reviewing process here? I guess not.
The concept here (fundatmentals again) is volunteers gets their site reviewed and in the process (join)grow the community. Why are we getting serp from the SE and do their spam cleaning job? They are commercial entity and it is their business to do that, not us.
I guess it is all a matter of postitioning. If hedir position itself as a non-scam, non-spam directory where users of the web can be given the assurance that listings in the Human Edit Directory are generally safe, then the community had done a good job.
The current turn of events and suggested improvement are kinda confusing to me. _________________ Cheers!
.::redhex::.
Singapore Wine Company Free Classifieds
I'll try to work with you on this, but we need to figure a few things out.
First is my earlier post about the things Hedir is still missing before moving on. We do have issues that need to be addressed. Most of the things that need taken care of are small fixes where coding is needed.
Most important question.
What is your plan to keep visitors coming if there are no more submissions by a human being.
What new avenue will Hedir produce to gain new reviewers?
May not be the best, but it is to spread the word. I recommend Method number 2. _________________ Cheers!
.::redhex::.
Singapore Wine Company Free Classifieds
I will take an alternative view on this. You scratch my back I scratch yours. If the submitter review sites. Then we review theirs. That is as simple as that. hedir is offering a free listing and the conditions are clearly stated. If the submitter do not want to spare the effort to do the minimum reviews, I do not think his site deserve to be listed. We do not own him anything.
I think I was not able to explain myself clear enough. Who are submitting the sites? If we expect only the webmasters doing teh job then we are going wrong somewhere. Hedir says, "anyone can submit any site". We still can give preference for submitters who are reviewing sites for their contribution to Hedir. Hedir is not meant for giving links, we want to offer quality listing for normal users. We need to answer the following questions clearly. What is Hedir's targeted segment? Is it normal visitors (or surfer or searcher) or Webmasters (or site owners like any other directory)?
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I may sound high handed, but hedir is based on volunteer reviewers and the last thing that you want is another 24th Nov incident.
With review center it is not possible as the sites are divided into sub-forums and the reviewers have choice to chose and arrange as per his/her preferences.
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I am not too sure about this. Why do we want to take data from Google/yahoo Serp? Those links are no way permenant. Taking listings from SERP, will google/yahoo unleash a team of reviewers to help out the reviewing process here? I guess not.
We will not be taking data from Google we will be working on top of Google's layer at browser level. When someone is searching for “Mortgage” (our chosen keyword for this week) Google (or any other search engine) will show a result page sorted on the basis of an automated algo. Now Hedir will put the community vote over it which will help the searcher decide whether to go for it or not. In other words google will propose the sites based on a ranking algo and hedir community will put its recommendation on top of it. A site ranking well based on links can be just another affiliate site offering no big value to the customer. We allow the visitor chose the right service above the right site. The above image will make it clearer. Do you see a thumb with earn search result on the SERP?
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Most important question.
What is your plan to keep visitors coming if there are no more submissions by a human being.
What new avenue will Hedir produce to gain new reviewers?
A browser extension working on the principle of "home delivery method". No need to visit hedir just drop in your suggestion and it will added to hedir. I hope that with extensions we can see some good customer testimonials focused on services.
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Refer to this Social Submission for Hedir.
May not be the best, but it is to spread the word. I recommend Method number 2.
I support method 2 and already for mortgage category we have sent emails to 100s of webmasters. I do not see a good ROI there as people hate email marketing these days.
We can also form a marketing panel for WOM marketing techniques. One way is to publish relevant articles on top sites. Contacting communities to participate. I will put more ideas.
Again I repeat this is just a brainstorming session and we are debating to get the better out of the box. I appreciate all the comments and feedbacks.
Thanks,
Bret _________________ Web 2.0 bookmarking - I think you cant make it simpler.
Whoa! I think there are some really great ideas floating around here. BUT, good ideas do not constitute design requirements. Back to basics, please.
It seems to me that there are three approaches to HEDir-- I kinda tested two with my own submissions a while back.
1) A webmaster or owner can submit his/her own site for constructive review. Several people will really take a serious look at a lot of site factors, e.g. seo, coding, content, good taste. That process has helped a lot of us make significant changes for great improvements. Valuable. Helped me.
2) A person can discover a quality site that would really benefit the HEDir. Quality sites in the directory are critical to the system's future. To compete with DMOZ, we need lots of people submitting good sites that they may not be affiliated with. I submitted one site with a long-term success formula that I knew would help the directory--but I had / have no influence on the site itself.
3) Other #$#$%# people can submit #$#$% spammy sites. They don't care about improving quality, and we don't care about helping their cause.
For approach #1, what can we do to improve the peer review? What tools? What guidelines? This is a time-consuming, rewarding process. It's needed, but it will not build a directory quickly. Rewards to submitters are obvious.
For approach #2, it seems to me that we don't need to waste our time with detailed, constructive criticisms since the submitter can't make changes. Maybe use Brett's automated approach to make it a quick submission plus some variant of GJ tools to get a quick technical review to verify that the site actually works plus a short community review that the content actually helps the directory. Get'em into the directory quickly and make it rewarding for the submitters who really don't benefit otherwise.
For approach #2, it seems to me that we don't need to waste our time with detailed, constructive criticisms since the submitter can't make changes. Maybe use Brett's automated approach to make it a quick submission plus some variant of GJ tools to get a quick technical review to verify that the site actually works plus a short community review that the content actually helps the directory. Get'em into the directory quickly and make it rewarding for the submitters who really don't benefit otherwise.
If the submission is done by a season hedir reviewer who had pre-qualify the site, I view this as a valuable source of good sites that comes in.
pre-qualified sites are really useful as it expand the reviewer base to non-webmaster or non- web owners. We are actually tapping the users of the web site themselves. _________________ Cheers!
.::redhex::.
Singapore Wine Company Free Classifieds
I'm a little concerned that just a bot could overwhelm the process by producing a huge number of sites to review.
How about restricting the bot to spider outbound links of sites already in HEDIR?
How about placing those sites into a pre-review queue for a 30-day period?
How about a marketing function for HEDIR that invites the sites in the queue to participate in the HEDIR review process?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole issue here but isn't this the wrong way around?
Current situation: thousands of sites in the review queue waiting for a first review.
Suggested situation: hundreds of thousands of sites in the review queue waiting for review.
So rather then filling the database with new sites, shouldn't we focus on filling the database with new reviews?
Scraping the title and meta description of a submitted site really should be a general guideline and/or a little convenient wizard to speed up the submitting process for the submitter and in half of the cases serious editing is needed to prevent spam descriptions/titles.
"Anyone can submit a site": I always thought "anyone" means any human being, particularly not a bot. I also thought the whole idea of HEDIR is to rule out the bot-sphere of SE's and rather rely on humans to seperate the good/serious sites from the bogus/scraper/crappy sites in a controllable, open discussion. For anybody to see and participate in. _________________ Please review some sites.
Contributing members of the month
I do agree on pulling the meta description from the actual site.
I hate to have to post this. Certainly this has crossed your mind.
1.Submitter(troublemaker) very much wants to make his competitor look bad and would like to bury them 6 feet under.
2.Submitter(troublemaker) comes to Hedir, why?
he can represent his competitor
he can make a bad title and description for them.
he knows it will get marked as Spam and sent to the rejected pile.
3. Will the owner of the actual site have any idea that their site was even on Hedir? Nope, and it will sit here with its bad title/description and in the rejected pile.
So do we need the automation of pulling Title and Meta Description?
I would say yes...
Trouble makers can't touch what they don't own.
If the real owner of the site can't write a good meta description or title then we can be assured it was their doing alone.
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and we are debating to get the better out of the box. I appreciate all the comments and feedbacks.
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