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Should we remove the “add a site” option completely?
What do we collect while adding a site:-
Site Title
Site URL
Short Description
Complete Business and Service information
(min 750 characters)
Chosen Category
Suggested Category
A note for Community
Help community understand more about the site to get more reviews
How can we avoid it?
Site Title :- We can take it from the homepage of the website using a script.
Site URL :- , I do not think I need to say anything here.
Short Description : Meta Description
Complete Business and Service information : People anyway are not interested in it and particularly if you are not the owner of the site.
Chosen Category (using tags and giving the power to user, I will explain it further.)
Suggested Category (while using tags we will not require it)
A note for Community (the first comment will serve this)
Help community understand more about the site to get more reviews (unwanted field again)
Advantages
I can make (infact I just need two days to do that) a bot to scan the web and list all the websites (few million) to our DB in a week time. OR while the first user is adding a comment to the website, I can add the site too.
Only then users need to review sites and through ff and IE (in general browser) extensions we can get 1000s of reviews every day. Then no need to add sites.
Using tagging system we can even design a better Search Engine based on Human Intelligence.
More and more and more advantages with its flexible, scalable and simpler usability feature.
How will then we do categorization?
I think we have a very innovative idea here.
Work Module 1: No need to choose a category for a site rather choose tags for a site (maximum number of tags for a site can be decided by the community).
Work Module 2: Hedir moderator team will categorize the tags.
I think this step is very much required. I request your urgent help. Invite your friends to Hedir as in this phase we really require the maximum possible crowd knowledge to make the better and the best.
I think I follow señor, but like GJ, need a moment to wrap my head around it.
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I like the submission information. I really don't like it when the submitter uses promotional text instead of explanatory text in their submission, it feels and sometimes is spammy, and if feels like the abuse of the submission process. Via your script, we you can grab all the relevant information from the website from meta's. Maybe a smaller comment to community would do nicely.
However I do need a little further explanation of the tag system. I'm almost there, but not quite sure. A submission does not go into a particular category until the mods figure out what category the site belongs in based on the tags. am I right? What are the tags like? Or am I being a dumb tropical beaner? _________________ Ambivalent? Me?
Well, yes and no.
Site Title: pull it from the site.
Site url: it's a given that they will have to supply this.
Short Description: Pull the meta from the site
A note for Community: not needed
This part made me pause for a minute. I really have to think this one over.
If I'm reading your comments correctly, you are saying you want to take away site submission and start pulling urls from search engine results. Is that right?
Quote:
# I can make (infact I just need two days to do that) a bot to scan the web and list all the websites (few million) to our DB in a week time. OR while the first user is adding a comment to the website, I can add the site too.
# Only then users need to review sites and through ff and IE (in general browser) extensions we can get 1000s of reviews every day. Then no need to add sites.
We still have issues that need to be ironed out before we move on to new things like this. A little automation for checking urls would be good.
1. When a url is submitted it should be checked if it has a return code of 301, 302, 404, 500 and so on. If one of these are returned then it could be set to be checked 3 times and then dumped with no submission being made. Since we do accept submission at this time the person could get a page with the eror or an email about the error.
2. Another check to make sure that a submitted url is using http://www. in the url. This takes care of any subdomains that are submitted.
3. A text search through the submitted description for words like "Viagra and Porn" which under current rules qualify then for immediate rejection. A word like “Gambling” wouldn't fall under this type of list. Gambling could be also used as a "Gambling help group” that helps people with a gambling problem.
The detection of a word that couldn't have another use or meaning would cause no submission to happen. (this could be applied to your new way of pulling site information)
4. If we keep using a submission form for someone to add their site to the queue then we need a "image verification code" they must enter so submissions are not automated from script to submit sites.
We just need a few fail-safe solutions to be applied where applicable and feasible. Of course this is just my opinion of a few things lacking still. Anything currently done manually that won't depreciate when changed to an automated way should be looked into and possibly applied.
Another thing that I want to add that isn't related to submissions.
We have the problem of Guest postings once again in review threads. This was fixed once, but has started happening again. I have deleted about 5 posts within the same site submission thread where a Guest posted hello or hi in russian. Everytime I deleted it they posted again.
Please fix this . It would be much appriciated.
Bret , I'm not trying to bust your bubble. I just think we need to take a few small steps before a leap. I really really like the idea of pulling information from the site directly. That sparked my interest the most. I don't understand the tag thing yet.
Accept only the url. Remove the current categories. Allow free tagging by submitters/members/mods.
BTW, this is really exciting stuff folks! I found this site the other day and already can foresee a great future for this human edited directory. Good luck to all the people involved
So, a sort of del.icio.us/technorati/ODP crossover? Whee - I can see the "Hedir This!" tags on websites everywhere already
I saw the same vision today
Quote:
A submission does not go into a particular category until the mods figure out what category the site belongs in based on the tags. am I right? What are the tags like? Or am I being a dumb tropical beaner?
I am keeping this thread in queue and once I am done with few smaller things I will add a new thread to discuss tags in detail. We need to be sure before implementing this. We surely need a collective brainstorming session.
Quote:
and start pulling urls from search engine results. Is that right?
Not from the Search Engine results. I will write a bot like googlebot which will spider websites available on web through links and it will be added to Hedir site review queue, not added to Hedir categories. These sites will be added under hedirbot (as one user of hedir).
Google Junky, I am taking it point by point
Point 1: With each site I can also show an automated result like how many broken links, redirection errors, cached pages count with Google and Yahoo. We can move some of the sites to rejected forums using a Hedir score (based on defined errors).
Point 2: It can be taken care of.
Point 3: Can be done.
Point 4: I will add a captcha there.
We need to brainstorm to come up with the better solution. These were just suggestions and with time we redefine the need. I will ask HD to check into other mentioned problem.
Quote:
BTW, this is really exciting stuff folks! I found this site the other day and already can foresee a great future for this human edited directory. Good luck to all the people involved
Simpleton, Great to hear that. Such things keep us motivated. Thanks. We are working as a community and our collective intelligence will help us develop something really useful. Your suggestions and feedbacks are very valuable at every stage.
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:47 am Post subject: Bret's Initiative
Like everyone has suggested thus far, at face value Bret's initiative is exciting. Although, I have not gone into the particulars of your suggestion, Bret, what immediately came to mind was the dynamics of the human element in HEDIR.
What are the ramifications of such a change on the human element of HEDIR? If adding a site is automated, how will HEDIR draw in more reviewers? I don't know if I would have browsed through HEDIR to better understand what it is all about and become actively involved in HEDIR had I submitted through auto-submission (assuming I understood your meaning).
Basically, all I am getting at is that HEDIR should ask how, if at all, would your suggestion add to or detract from the positive aspects of HEDIR as it is today. _________________ Nancy/kappixteam http://www.kappix.com
Please review Kappix http://www.hedir.com/groupthink/viewtopic.php?t=13511
Without a hierarchical structure where users can drill down from general to specific by topic, doesn't that take the 'Dir' out of HEDir?
Sounds like the concept is to put the entire web into the 'review cue'. IMO this method will attract the same bunch that's submitting the mostly spammy sites right now, only allowing them to drive-by tag their sites immediately - and still move on.
What are the ramifications of such a change on the human element of HEDIR?
We will have to reach out to the edges. IMO people are more comfortable in putting their opinions than adding a site (BARRIER- As per our current architecture I won't be able to add a review if the site is not added). When I am browsing a website and have some mins in hand to add a review, I should be able to click on a browser extension to add it. We will soon have moderators and super moderators checking the unwanted spam or manipulations at different levels. We can also have Hedir Courts where people can complain against moderators or rejections which will then be looked after by our senior members. A collaborative spam filtering can also be implemented.
Human review system will always remain the center (backbone and the strength) for Hedir and a combination of taxonomy and folksonomy will make Hedir unique.
The things that we need to do in the coming days,
Making hedir a platform where or with other's can build their applications.
Distributing the reviews across the edges of web than holding it to the hedir's review center.
I am enjoying the progress , thanks for the participation. Ideas unlimited and dreams unlimited .
Enjoy Web with Hedir
Bret _________________ Web 2.0 bookmarking - I think you cant make it simpler.
Sounds like the concept is to put the entire web into the 'review cue'. IMO this method will attract the same bunch that's submitting the mostly spammy sites right now, only allowing them to drive-by tag their sites immediately - and still move on.
I agree with this totally. Personally, I like it the way it is...make people earn their stripes rather than getting in without necessarily having to do anything. _________________ HEDir's Prince of Cool
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:24 am Post subject: Latest Blog Post : Blog and earn!
This is a good idea to remove the barriers for participation.
Hedir says
Quote:
Community Review System
» Anyone can submit a site.
» Anyone can vote and review.
Second point is achieved or is on the right path. Is the first point "Anyone can submit a site" achieved, or will it be achieved with the restriction? _________________ http://www.idealwebtools.com/blog/orkut-banned-india/ - Orkut getting a ban in India, why? Is it fair? Politicians not liking it as some voices are raised against.
What barriers? Anyone can participate if they want. The only problem is that we simply don't have enough people participating right now. That will come with time, but by sacrificing the original concept you'll kill that. _________________ HEDir's Prince of Cool
Something else just occurred to me, and I'm sure I'm not the only person who has seen this.
There are two aspects to HEDir that give it a very unique perspective and would be in very real danger of being removed if this idea went down:
The submitter gets guaranteed traffic. Is it trash traffic? Absolutely. But the people who submit to HEDir are looking for traffic, and sites that are good enough can convert even trash traffic to customers, sales, loyal site visitors, and others who will spread the word. In other words, it provides a rather unique measure of success for a website.
The review process itself. We've got some great reviewers in here in francesco (even though I personally find his style a bit harsh, he's usually got the right idea), Nancy from the Kappix team, GJ, baggeroli, Melkor, redhex, and many others who I can't think of right now because I'm too damn tired. The comments that are made in the review process give webmasters a very good sense of how good their sites are and what can be done to improve them.
I sense these would both be lost if the idea goes through. _________________ HEDir's Prince of Cool
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, I do not think I need to say anything here.
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